Sheriff says he's open to 'red flag' bill

The sheriff who persuaded county commissioners Feb. 11 to adopt a resolution declaring Quay County a “Second Amendment sanctuary county” said days later he was open to possibly supporting a “red flag” gun-control bill in the New Mexico Legislature because it may reduce the number of suicides.

Also, one of the objections Quay County Sheriff Russell Shafer had against an unsecured-gun bill was rendered moot because of amendments added after his comments before the commission. He continues to oppose the bill because he says it opens gun owners to civil liability if their guns are stolen.

Shafer elaborated on his objections to several gun-control measures moving through the Legislature during a phone interview last week. Twenty-nine other sheriffs in New Mexico have joined him in opposing many of those bills.

Miranda Viscoli, co-president of the nonpartisan and nonprofit New Mexicans to Prevent Gun Violence group, also spoke to the Quay County Sun by telephone about the bills, including two her organization helped draft.

“I’m not against guns. Our group is not anti-gun. I own guns,” Viscoli said. “This about making sure people who have no business having a firearm don’t get one.”

House Bill 83

The Extreme Risk Protection Order Act, called HB 83, would allow a judge to require a person to temporarily relinquish firearms if the person is deemed a high risk to himself or others. This typically is called a “red flag” bill; variants are in effect in 14 states.

Red-flag legislation’s effect on crime rates remains inconclusive. But a study released last year by the University of Indianapolis showed a 7.5 percent decrease of firearm-related suicides in Indiana in the 10 years since its red-flag law was enacted. Connecticut saw a double-digit decrease in gun suicides once enforcement of its law increased.

The National Rifle Association stated in March it was open to such laws, with conditions.

Shafer, who didn’t talk about HB 83 in front of the county commission and wasn’t aware of the study before his phone interview, also said he would be receptive to such legislation if certain conditions were met.

“If we can get some components that do protect the rights of gun owners, I am open to it,” he said. “I am in favor of anything that brings suicide rates down. As long as you have due process … I want this individual standing in front of a judge, represented by a lawyer, going through it.”

Viscoli said 68 percent of gunshot deaths in New Mexico are suicides.

“I think it’s a really important bill for suicide reduction,” she said. “We have way too many suicides with firearms in this state, especially in the more rural areas.”

House Bill 130

Shafer told the county commission HB 130, which creates penalties and liability for the negligent storage of firearms, said the bill would decimate youth shooting clubs, including 4-H.

Hours after Shafer’s remarks, his criticism no longer was accurate because of amendments. The bill removed criminal liability if a minor “was supervised by a person older than eighteen years old and use of the firearm was for hunting, sporting or other lawful purposes.”

“It made a liar out of me that afternoon because they added pages four and five,” Shafer said, chuckling. He said when he first examined the bill, it contained three pages.

Shafer said he still opposed the bill because he interprets a new section as adding civil liability if a minor steals a gun from its owner. He cited a violent home invasion in Tucumcari in October as an example.

“That tells me if a minor illegally enters the premises, steals a safe, cuts open the safe, gets the gun out and commits mayhem with it, the owner of that gun is civilly liable. I am totally against that,” he said.

Viscoli said the bill is needed because many shootings by minors — including one at a Clovis library in 2017 — occur with guns not secured by family members.

“I know another kid whose cousin got his face blown off because a bunch of 17-year-olds were being stupid with guns. That’s what we’re trying to stop,” she said.

House Bill 87

HB 87 would expand restrictions of those who cannot have a firearm, including those who are subject to orders of protection or those convicted of domestic-violence misdemeanor crimes.

Shafer said he objects to the bill because it’s redundant under current law.

“I object to domestic violence, but we already have laws in the books that once you’ve been convicted of domestic violence, you cannot possess a firearm,” he said.

As for temporarily confiscating guns from those under a protective order, he said it violates due process of law because they are “innocent until proven guilty.”

Viscoli disagreed.

“This is due process. When protective order is lifted, they get their guns back,” she said. “If the sheriffs say they’re not going to follow that law if it passes, when that ex-boyfriend shoots and kills his partner, which happens a ridiculous amount of times in this state, those sheriffs are going to be in a lot of trouble.

“It’s beyond my comprehension why they would do this. I don’t know why they’re defending the Second Amendment rights of a wife-beater, and that’s what the sheriffs are doing right now.”

House Bill 8

HB 8 would require a background check for all gun sales, even between family members.

Viscoli said there’s a way around that legislation for families.

“Family-to-family, they do not need to go through a background check,” she said. “You can gift the gun.”

Shafer chuckled when hearing of Viscoli’s response.

“I don’t want proponents of this bill to talk about how to loophole it,” he said. “But they don’t want to keep two lifelong buddies from doing the same thing. If we’re going to have laws, let’s do it right. House Bill 8 is not right.”

Shafer later reiterated his objections for many of the Legislature’s gun bills.

“I don’t believe we should be telling people what to do with their private property,” he said. “I don’t want to be used as the Gestapo to go take your property.”

The Constitution

Shafer said the New Mexico Sheriffs’ Association is prepared to file lawsuits against the constitutionality of many gun-control bills if they become law.

Whether they will be ruled as violations of the U.S. Constitution is another matter — largely because of the nuances and complications of law.

Quay County’s “Second Amendment sanctuary county” resolution contains a reference to the District of Columbia vs. Heller decision by the U.S. Supreme Court. The 2008 ruling, written by conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, strengthened an individual’s right to possess a firearm “for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”

However, Scalia also wrote “the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.”

“The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms,” the ruling stated.

“The Constitution never was written so that people who have no business having a firearm can have it,” Viscoli said.

Shafer said if the Supreme Court upholds New Mexico’s gun-control measures, he would abide by the ruling.

“If they go before the largest court in the land and they are found constitutional, that’s what it is,” he said. “Once the principal tells us, ‘You will do this,’ we will do it.”